Monday, January 17, 2022

The Ernie B Thread

A special place for the posts of Ernest and those wishing to engage.

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435 COMMENTS


  1. So apparently King has “everything to lose” which is wrong and “nothing to gain” which is also wrong but apart from that you’re right.

    Unsecured lenders have everything to lose and nothing to gain by being reckless,this fact does not alter regardless who the lender is,i am sure in reality DK treats his family’s trust as if it was his own money,would be churlish to pretend otherwise.
    Seems i am still right.


  2. Ernest BeckerDecember 6, 2017 at 13:44 
    A PLC which has posted trading losses in every year of it’s existence and which has admitted it will be doing the same this year, and next. Which will have to have a £20m share issue just to pay off loans. Which has no proper banking facilities and no line of credit other than it’s own shareholders. In fact it seems all but one shareholder has had enough, and that one is a convicted fraudster, so hardly what one would describe as a certainty to make good on his promises.
    A business analyst in assessing the viability of RFC would chuck the first 4 years accounts in the bin,in the SPL and out the SPL are two different business models,the losses were paid for by unsecured interest free loans soon to be converted into shares.This draws a line under a commercially irrelevant model outside the top tier.Losses in the SPL and future losses are part of a growth strategy,investing an extra 4 million in player wages is expected to result in a higher turnover,not pie in the sky given RFC previous turnover when in the SPL and not in Europe was around 35 million.I cannot think of any club in Scotland that is getting new credit from banks.If other lenders have had enough then they would demand their loans be secured,they haven’t.Business is a gamble, RFC is no different but the risks are minimal.
    ________________________

    Are you a business analyst, or someone who has experienced the work of a business analyst? Or is it just two words you know how to spell? What on earth makes you think that any business analyst would see the ‘RIFC model’ as anything other than farcical? What makes you think losses can possibly be a part of a growth strategy?

    Profits = growth, losses = decline.

    Borrowing for capital outlay can be seen as a growth strategy, ie Hearts new stand, borrowing to meet working capital is not only not a growth strategy, it is a route to insolvency.


  3.  What makes you think losses can possibly be a part of a growth strategy?

    £5.24m was invested in strengthening the first teamsquad,….As a result of the above, the Group achieved a retained LOSS for the year to 30 June 2012 of £7.37m whichcompares with the previous year’s profit of £0.10m.Further information is contained within the FinancialDirector’s Review.
    Although, on its face, the financial outcome for the yearended 30 June 2012 appears disappointing, this was theresult of a DELIBERATE policy of retaining key players inorder to achieve significant strategic objectives that, iffulfilled, would have a substantial beneficial impact laterin the year. The success gained on the pitch in meetingthose objectives now provides us with greater flexibilitythan would otherwise have been the case.
    http://cdn.celticfc.net/assets/downloads/Annual%20Report%202012.pdf


  4. ERNEST BECKERDECEMBER 6, 2017 at 23:39
     What makes you think losses can possibly be a part of a growth strategy?
    £5.24m was invested in strengthening the first teamsquad,….As a result of the above, the Group achieved a retainedloss for the year to 30 June 2012 of £7.37m whichcompares with the previous year’s profit of £0.10m.Further information is contained within the FinancialDirector’s Review.Although, on its face, the financial outcome for the yearended 30 June 2012 appears disappointing, this was theresult of a deliberate policy of retaining key players inorder to achieve significant strategic objectives that, iffulfilled, would have a substantial beneficial impact laterin the year. The success gained on the pitch in meetingthose objectives now provides us with greater flexibilitythan would otherwise have been the case.http://cdn.celticfc.net/assets/downloads/Annual%20Report%202012.pdf
    _______

    You see, there is a strategy, and it paid off, because Celtic were under control, and knew they had the quality of players to not only be successful, but to sell if needs be. TRFC, on the other hand, don’t have a squad with a cumulative sale value to cover the past years losses let alone the cumulative year on year losses, and they are certainly not of a quality to be successful.

    King has admitted that they are relying on future European income to cover the current and future losses. That is not a strategy, of any description, it is, at best, flying by the seat of their pants.

    I think it might indicate madness to compare a well run business like Celtic with that of a football club that has made no trading profit in it’s history.

    One thing’s for sure, if King has any sort of a strategy, it’s an exit strategy for himself.


  5. Might I ask if Ernest Becker and Kris Boyd have both been seen in the same room at any time?

    If not, perhaps a mystery has been solved

    Kris Boyd is the man who opined before the second Aberdeen TRFC game that TRFC were a club on the up – the previous results being loss, loss, win…
    As to his completely unjustified assertion on bigger and better, in my teaching days that would have led to a mark of 0 from me, after what might be described as an exclamatory rant.


  6. You see, there is a strategy, and it paid off, because Celtic were under control, and knew they had the quality of players to not only be successful, but to sell if needs be.

    You missed the actual point:
    CFC had a short term loss making strategy and RFC have a short term loss making strategy.
    CFC had the means to cover planned losses and RFC have the means to cover planned losses.
    CFC and RFC both have their losses under control.
    Posters who claim RFC’s business model is any different to CFC or any other business that invests for growth is mistaken.
    Take away non-reoccurring expenditure like stadium repairs and Sports Direct compensation and add historical retail profits plus some extra football prize money for improved performances and RFC will be able to afford 10 million wage bill and some (without loans and without losses).
    In effect they only need to borrow for this season and next before they break even on a historical 35 million domestic turnover.
    If they achieve Europa all good and well, if not then the losses are covered.

    If anyone understands what the hell the Board is doing with regard to a replacement manager then i don’t, nothing makes sense and it certainly blows all the conspiracy nonsense about SMSM tapping out of the water.
    I wanted Murty to stay so i am not all that bothered,save some money for a change.


  7. RFC in 2008-09 had a turnover of 40 million with no European revenue,there is absolutely no reason to doubt RFC can achieve a domestic turnover of 35 million minimum within the next 2 years.
    The big difference between then and now is a 40 million turnover would give RFC an operating profit of approx 5 million and not an eye watering loss of 17 million.
    Given the similar season ticket sales between then and now the Board must be congratulated in managing fan expectations while at the same time slimming down RFC into a viable business.


  8. Ernest BeckerDecember 8, 2017 at 02:51 
    You see, there is a strategy, and it paid off, because Celtic were under control, and knew they had the quality of players to not only be successful, but to sell if needs be.
    You missed the actual point:CFC had a short term loss making strategy and RFC have a short term loss making strategy.CFC had the means to cover planned losses and RFC have the means to cover planned losses.CFC and RFC both have their losses under control.Posters who claim RFC’s business model is any different to CFC or any other business that invests for growth is mistaken.Take away non-reoccurring expenditure like stadium repairs and Sports Direct compensation and add historical retail profits plus some extra football prize money for improved performances and RFC will be able to afford 10 million wage bill and some (without loans and without losses).In effect they only need to borrow for this season and next before they break even on a historical 35 million domestic turnover.If they achieve Europa all good and well, if not then the losses are covered.If anyone understands what the hell the Board is doing with regard to a replacement manager then i don’t, nothing makes sense and it certainly blows all the conspiracy nonsense about SMSM tapping out of the water.I wanted Murty to stay so i am not all that bothered,save some money for a change.
    ______________________________

    *Insert sweery word here* hell, ‘SHORT TERM LOSS MAKING STRATEGY’, have you lost the few marbles you had?

    That short term loss strategy has existed throughout the whole of RIFC/TRFC’s existence. That is not short term, and it’s definitely not a strategy. 

    RIFC/TRFC do not ‘have the means’ to cover planned (or any other kind of) losses, they rely on other peoples money to cover those losses, read the accounts, it’s made very clear there; and the ‘going concern’ statement makes it very clear that your club, far from having any means whatsoever, is teetering on the brink. Consecutive ‘going concern’ matters, do not a strategy make!

    Then, having said a few words that actually make sense, ‘If anyone understands what the hell the Board is doing with regard to a replacement manager then i don’t…’ you then resort to type with this ‘…nothing makes sense and it certainly blows all the conspiracy nonsense about SMSM tapping out of the water.’ As ever, you do not qualify or explain that nonsensical statement, but it suggests that you think that, just because a King ‘strategy’ fails (but only in it’s stated aim), it means that what was so very obvious to every observer, didn’t happen! A bit like your stance on liquidation, I suppose.

    Bearing in mind that RIFC/TRFC have never come close to making any sort of trading profit, can you explain how five years of monumental trading losses can possibly be described as a ‘growth strategy’? If you can’t manage that, please give up!

    I won’t even attempt to touch on your future profit making moonbeams, other than to say that the RIFC’s chairman has already stated that the club will require a further £7m in loans, just to survive, over the next two years!


  9. I hate to say i told you so but quoting numerous Laws of the land on any issue was a category mistake,what i find a little bizarre is the SFA are actually accountable to the clubs you support.
    Decisions are made within the rules in the best interests of your club’s long term viability,which is as i said a balance between integrity and commercial reality.

    Was it a conspiracy?

    You betcha, because one of the most important members was too big to fail and you better believe if it was CFC the response would have been identical.

    Anyone who believes morality exists in a vacuum is a child,it is relative.


  10. Firstly there may be no precedent and yes in law that makes it difficult but surely there must always be a first to make a precedent.

    Indeed.

    I am off to lie down in a dark room.


  11. Ernest BeckerDecember 9, 2017 at 21:32
    I hate to say i told you so but quoting numerous Laws of the land on any issue was a category mistake,what i find a little bizarre is the SFA are actually accountable to the clubs you support. Decisions are made within the rules in the best interests of your club’s long term viability,which is as i said a balance between integrity and commercial reality.
    Was it a conspiracy?
    You betcha, because one of the most important members was too big to fail and you better believe if it was CFC the response would have been identical.
    Anyone who believes morality exists in a vacuum is a child,it is relative.
    ====================================
    Morality doesn’t exist in a vacuum it requires context  and in the context of the Golden Rule of a normative ethical philosophy  –

    Moral philosophy includes moral ontology, or the origin of morals, as well as moral epistemology, or knowledge of morals.
    Different systems of expressing morality have been proposed, including deontological ethical systems which adhere to a set of established rules, and normative ethical systems which consider the merits of actions themselves.
    An example of normative ethical philosophy is the Golden Rule, which states that: “One should treat others as one would like others to treat oneself.”[3] – https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morality

    to ignore that Golden Rule in the context of sport in the supposed interest of commercial balance means it is no longer a sport, whose existence depends on observing the Golden Rule articulated in the sporting rules that RFC drove a coach and horses through.

    To think that  the commercial value of sport does not depend totally on the Golden Rule puts the long term future of Scottish football based on circumventing the GR by deceit at risk.

    It is at even greater risk if supporters of TRFC think that the Golden Rule can be broken with impunity, a belief that is understandable given that charges of dishonesty and deceit that should have been made have been studiously avoided and the rules used to aid that avoidance.

    There is indeed a commercial reason for that avoidance, which is more than apparent to observers  who understand what took place based on evidence and that is if what RFC indulged in was viewed as dishonest behaviour over a period of ten years, that gave them an advantage over rivals because it produced a bigger player wage budget (and no one argues that the advantage Celtic have over other Scottish clubs  that generates football success is due to their wage budget, just as PSG and their ilk’s success is dependent on theirs) then how could such a club who paid no heed to the Golden Rule be allowed a position in Scottish football at ANY professional level?

    If you ran a card school and I attended but cheated over ten years and you only found out how after ten years, would you invite me back to the card school knowing that the cheating robbed you all that time? I imagine not.

    So yes commercial considerations did allow TRFC to replace RFC, but until there is evidence that steps are being taken to make them operate on the same basis of their rivals i.e. sustainably, which they can do but don’t, then for the supporters of other clubs to allow that uncorrected club to participate without trust in those whose job it is to protect integrity, and unfairness to their club, would be childish.

    Your club or rather those who ran it into the ground (some of whom are still there) should be tried for crimes against Scottish football, who knows,  such an action could be commercially popular.


  12. Morality doesn’t exist in a vacuum it requires context  and in the context of the Golden Rule of a normative ethical philosophy  –
    Morning AULDHEID,

    The correct moral context is not the Golden Rule but SFA rules and since they apply to all equally i see no breach of ethics in this context, in fact if the rules had not been applied to save a club in a similar position under similar circumstances i would be asking why not.
    Tax avoidance schemes were not against SFA rules and irregular tax avoidance schemes resulting in owed tax years after the event is also not against the rules,the unprecedented events of 2012 required an unique use of the rules to assist a member in distress.
    It is wrong to assume uniqueness equates to unfairness when the unique action is within the rules for all, the only thing preventing previous clubs in liquidation from being given the same consideration was their own unique circumstances.
    The moral zeitgeist on tax avoidance schemes has shifted dramatically over the last decade,when RFC employed tax avoidance it was not considered immoral and was commonplace.


  13. ERNEST BECKER
    DECEMBER 10, 2017 at 09:33

    in fact if the rules had not been applied to save a club in a similar position under similar circumstances i would be asking why not.

    Ah but the football authorities didn’t save a club. How could they when that club was in the death throes of liquidation?

    What they did do was treat a brand new club , formed by a shyster from a basket of assets, as if it was the old, dead club.

    There is a massive difference between treating them as if they were the same club and actually being so. 

    As you know, the football authorities’ legal expert, Rod McKenzie of Harper Macleod LLP, has confirmed in a court of law that the club currently playing out of Ibrox is not legally the same club as the one which was formed in 1872 and which died in 2012.


  14. Ernest Becker
    QED.
    If I ever hold a card school, folk like you or who think like you would not be invited.
    The SFA rules DEPEND on the Golden Rule or do you think your rivals should behave like RFC did or have the consequences of that thinking not given you cause to rethink?
    I think there is a definition of insanity in there somewhere. 


  15. Derek(named after DJ) McInnes for want of a better word bottled the appointment but DK’s statement was cruel,hubristic and totally out of order.
    I don’t blame him to be honest any manager given the task of stopping 10 in a row given the commercial gulf between the two teams is on a hiding to nothing.
    The intensity of the West Coast bubble is bad enough with parity,the pressure on him and his family to succeed against the odds would have been merciless and relentless.
    Money was not the issue in my opinion,as i have already posted on here if RFC could not afford him pretending otherwise 7 weeks later is perhaps not the best way to sell a lie.


  16.  the obvious and appropriate conclusions are drawn – that RIFC/TRFC is closer to administration/liquidation than it is to winning their next Derby Match!

    I suggest your conclusion lacks any obvious evidence or appropriate reasoning.

    Unsecured lenders with everything to lose AGREED to a player wage increase of 4 million.
    Experienced businessmen did not blindly agree to this increase not knowing the loss making consequences.
    Players are signed on 2/3 year contracts.
    Conclusion: Unless these lenders are brain dead it is obvious they have the appropriate funding in place to cover these losses for the next two years.

    Ergo the chances of administration are slimmer than slim and the chances of liquidation are non-existent,given CFC’s run of inconsistent results and lack of tested metal i think they have a reasonable chance of losing the next OF game.
    RFC are under no financial pressure and CFC players seem to be prone to folding under ANY football pressure.


  17. ERNEST BECKERDECEMBER 11, 2017 at 13:22

    Conclusion: Unless these lenders are brain dead it is obvious they have the appropriate funding in place to cover these losses for the next two years.

    They may indeed but that is just to stand still with an ageing striker, Hearts rejects, experienced but constantly crocked pro’s and a few decent loan players. Where is the money coming from to take the club to the next level. i.e to overtake Celtic and to be consistently in the latter stages of Euro competition?

    There are no Sinclair or Dembele types on the Ibrox horizon.

    Even if there is some increase in commercial revenue to take income back towards some of the latter 2000’s level it doesn’t take much increase in the cost of the first team (last reported at £10.4 million but this season unknown, my guess at least £13m) along with the general operating costs (in the past ranging from £10m-£15m) to eat away at any new spare cash.

    Sure, if managed correctly, it should be enough to blow other SPFL teams out the water but I can’t see it being anywhere near enough to catch Celtic or provide any consistent runs in Europe.

    A T’Rangers win in the next game v Celtic could indeed happen but it may be be the worst thing they could do in terms of doubling the resolve of Desmond, Lawwell and Rodgers to continue to be top dog domestically and push on in Europe.


  18. I should have known that, because it is so evident that nobody ever lends to a business that eventually ends up in, say, liquidation. The truth is there, folks, nobody, not even banks, lend to businesses that are heading to ruin!

    Unsecured,think about it.


  19.  if there’s something about lending, unsecured, a few millions to a loss making company that indicates a sound mind, 

    I did say the alternative was all these experienced lenders with more than 33 years business experience would all have to be brain dead,your case relies on all of them being bonkers,not the strongest argument to any sound mind.
    P.S. 16 million unsecured with another 7 million unsecured to come is not a few million unless your banking experience was in Zimbabwe.
    Lending unsecured money in the banking industry would be viewed as a sign of confidence,if the lenders had any doubts they would simply put a floating charge on the assets just in case,,,,THEY HAVEN’T.


  20. If Phil is right about the “Invoice Financing” thing then that is little different from the Ticketus arrangement.

    Refuse to read his fairy tales,but knowing Phil it will be a casual distortion of the Zebra Finance arrangement, fans pay in instalments just like a car but the dealer gets all or most of the cash upfront.
    Standard stuff spun into a negative to support his administration verbal tic.


  21. Particularly given your entirely ‘lender-dependent’ strategy for growth that you shared with us previously.

    CFC’s Golden Era was lender-dependent,and they fully utilised a huge overdraft facility with the Co Op bank,and it was SECURED.


  22. Furthermore, the lending in question was made with no expectation of getting the money back, therefor, security was probably considered unnecessary
    There is a big difference between converting loans into shares and not getting it back for goodness sake !!
    Your ever expanding theory now has emotionally attached weaklings sitting idly by waiting for insolvency and share extinction because security is unnecessary???
    Unsecured lending by intelligent businessmen indicates confidence,i reject your alternative theory on the grounds my brain is not dead.


  23.  the multitude of bears would have gone bonkers (in the most vile of ways) if a standard security had been taken over Ibrox.

    If insolvency was a risk i am sure the lenders would not give a toss what the fans felt about a floating charge,they are hardly going to be over the moon about them anyway.

    As for unsecured lending to fool fans into a false sense of security.
    Really?


  24. read downfall,

    I don’t read revisionist history,he got a tip off, he hoped it would bankrupt RFC, it didn’t, CW did.


  25. Ernest Becker says;

    “There is a big difference between converting loans into shares and not getting it back for goodness sake !!”

    Try telling that to the shareholders in the original club, (now in liquidation) 


  26. Ernest BeckerDecember 13, 2017 at 01:27
    read downfall, I don’t read revisionist history,he got a tip off, he hoped it would bankrupt RFC, it didn’t, CW did.

    Out of curiosity how much money was in the kitty when CW came in i recall he had to have 6 mill for running costs and 18 for the bank and he tapped this from ticketus not really bankrupting the club is it?
    I mean big Davie Murray if hed known would have sqaured this eh.
    “The money used to pay the bank debt was Ticketus money, which became the club’s money”,
    eh no it became CW’s money it would have been the fans money had he decided to stick around as they would pay of the loans, but he never did , the fans lost the club and the massive creditors debts to the taxman written off in liquidation, the owner became bankrupt and let big davie boy off the hook and the huniliation .
    “He then arranged a loan to Wavetower to pay the debt.
    Not exactly bankruting the club more like making himself bankrupt taking loans and doing a favour for the old boys network. The club was already bankrupt mate if you had read downfall Martin Bain was tipped off Big Davie Boy hitting the road mate, yer EBTs are no worth a toss.
    Hope you are not a wordsmith like the other tosser over on the moon, see you later off to the game to support my team, keep that history intact.


  27. bigboab1916December 13, 2017 at 18:00 
    Ernest BeckerDecember 13, 2017 at 01:27read downfall, I don’t read revisionist history,he got a tip off, he hoped it would bankrupt RFC, it didn’t, CW did.
    Out of curiosity how much money was in the kitty when CW came in i recall he had to have 6 mill for running costs and 18 for the bank and he tapped this from ticketus not really bankrupting the club is it?…
    ___________________

    The thing is, it doesn’t matter who killed RFC (though I agree with you, Boab), Rangers are deid, and Phil got that 100% right! Nice to see, though, that our visiting troll agrees that someone bankrupted the club.


  28. The club was already bankrupt mate if you had read downfall 

    Mate, i have read through Insolvency Law and cannot for the life of me find the term  ” already bankrupt appropos Phil “.
    Sounds Greek to me.


  29. No.  It was profit dependent,

    Yeah, that is why CFC made a 7 million loss in 2011-12 gambling on CL qualification, it is called the SDM business model,had they failed to qualify they were stuck with this wage bill for at least 2/3 years and annual losses of 7 million.
    They got rid of their rivals to double their chances and had a punt, a punt financed by secured lending.

    Anyone who thinks flogging players back in 2011-12 would have solved CL failure losses better think again@
    No CL, no RFC and a team devoid of stars?????

     £100 discount wouldn’t have saved the day, they would have lost a fortune with huge fixed overheads and the Golden Era becomes a Golden Shower.

    CFC £90.6 million
    Accies -1 million.

    Pffft.


  30. I would crowd fund money to send John James to the moon where he can howl at the flat earth.

    The sooner JC gets him on a couch the better.


  31. Ernest BeckerDecember 14, 2017 at 00:11
    No.  It was profit dependent,
    Yeah, that is why CFC made a 7 million loss in 2011-12 gambling on CL qualification, it is called the SDM business model,had they failed to qualify they were stuck with this wage bill for at least 2/3 years and annual losses of 7 million.
    They got rid of their rivals to double their chances and had a punt, a punt financed by secured lending.
    ===================
    Sheer tripe. Believe that and you will believe anything.
    Celtic’s wage bill had to be high to keep pace with the financially doped one at RFC including ebts, but not high enough that player sales would not offset the risk. The sale of McGeady in Aug 2010 for £9.5m kept the wolf from the door that year. 
    EBTS were still being offered to signings in 2008 when with £25m to £40m BTC tax bill on the table at Ibrox,RFC splurged £10m on players to take the titles in 2009/10/11. They actually spent around £21m but net spend after receipts from 3 transfers was £10m. These figures can be demonstrated
    RFC got rid of themselves and started the process in 2008, although to be fair, like the Spanish Inquisition they never saw the bank crash of October 2008 when the money tap was turned off. 
    If you are going to tell porkie pies try and get some facts to fill them. 


  32. On this Ernest Becker Troll (EBT) carbuncle …

    I am instinctively against censorship, even of such as this fifth columnist from the fourth estate, armed with a sack full of familiar old squirrels.

    However, we (by which I mean many of this site’s big hitters) do seem to be going round in circles with this joker.

    While I understand that it’s good to practice one’s replies to old saws such as those being regurgitated (ad nauseam) by EBT, is it really necessary to keep doing so?


  33. Rubbish, when Juninho went to Celtic he had an EBT from Middlesborough, Celtic approached HMRC and asked about them (they were unkknown to Celtic at the time) to be told that HMRC regarded them as illegal and tax evasion, as such Celtic paid the tax due.

    Not sure why CFC would be liable to pay tax on a Middlesborough EBT?


  34. I very much doubt RFC will be offloading some poor performing high wage earners in January,nobody would be stupid enough to pay their wages and i doubt they will move for less.


  35. Celtic took one look and thought ‘Naw.’  Warm?

    CFC had second thoughts may be warmer, if my memory serves me they repaid over £650,000 some months after agreeing to an EBT,not sure if any side letter was involved.


  36. I cannot see any problem with RFC using lending facilities and share conversion as a legitimate method of realising a historic domestic turnover,as long as it complies with FFP rules.
    I accept there is some risk but compared to SDM’s madness it is frugal by comparison.
    My position on RFC’s strategy is unchanged,much ado about nothing,one cannot expect the biggest club in Scotland to just sit back and accept mediocrity, Rangers is concomitant with glory.


  37. JOHN CLARK
    DECEMBER 15, 2017 at 12:57

    I suspect this will be the one and only time i am in complete agreement with you.


  38. Jeezo !! Deliberately stayed away from the site for about 2-3 weeks because the site was being led down a dead end by the troll that is Ernest Becker …..came back tonight and hes still here and we are still indulging …..Get a F@@@ing grip guys ( and Girls ) 01


  39. roddybhoyDecember 15, 2017 at 22:06 
    Jeezo !! Deliberately stayed away from the site for about 2-3 weeks because the site was being led down a dead end by the troll that is Ernest Becker …..came back tonight and hes still here and we are still indulging …..Get a F@@@ing grip guys ( and Girls )
    ___________________

    Couple of points on ignoring trolls.

    Ignoring them completely might well look to an occasional visitor that we can’t counter their point/argument;
    and each time they bring up some old argument it gives us the opportunity to revisit the facts which can refresh our thoughts on it and also raise things, in the light of what we know now, that we hadn’t thought of or realised before.

    Of course, engaging with them does seem to encourage them, so might I suggest that instead of arguing with them directly, we take the point they (try to) make and, without mentioning them or quoting them, proceed to revisit the facts they choose to ignore/misrepresent?

    So, if they have even the slightest modicum of self-awareness, they will realise that what they are doing is presenting us with an opportunity to post the things they hate to read, while their presence isn’t even acknowledged. Hopefully that modicum of self-awareness will lead to an eventual disappearing act. If they have no self-awareness, nothing we do, including ignoring them completely, will dampen their ardour.


  40. I am just saying that you do not need to own or control 25% of the PLC to be a person with significant control. 
    Not sure about this,no point in insisting on a declaration if it is meaningless.

    If i had to blindly guess the significance of the persons involved i would suggest one has been appointed to represent the interests of non-supporter investors and the other represents New Oasis to put some distance between DK and the family trust.It may be necessary to avoid DK being involved with too many shares when a share issue takes place.


  41. No, the SFA were quite prepared to let  Hearts  die, as a consequence of the mismanagement by the Russo/Lithuanian, 

    Oh i believe had Hearts gone into liquidation the SFA would have accommodated them much like RFC, as long as the same conditions were met they could hardly do otherwise.

    In my opinion.


  42. Had a wee look at the Hearts insolvency affair and it struck me as rather ironic that had Hearts gone into liquidation on or around mid April they would have been unable to complete their fixtures.
    Now if memory serves this would have terminated their membership,the club would have died and a new club would have to apply.
    They should have put the COMPANY into liquidation in the summer of 2013, Bidco buys the assets and history,requests a membership transfer to Bidco and avoid the risk of complete extinction by pursuing a very risky CVA during the season.

    Maybe the creditors would have got more than buttons from an asset sale.


  43. Good Evening and Welcome.

    Tonight’s topic. ” The importance of being earnest ”
    I find it interesting the most competitive and absorbing tier of Scottish football over the last few years has been the Championship and this league has seen significant growth in support.
    In fact one could argue there is little between this division and the bottom six of the top tier.
    The cause of this levelling out effect seems obvious to me,Rangers spent 2 years in this division and at the other end spent 4 years out of the top tier.
     All top tier clubs felt the commercial pain of Rangers 4 year absence and Championship teams received 2 years commercial benefits.
    I don’t find this particularly amazing given RFC’s huge market share but i do find it baffling when some deny the vital importance of RFC to Scottish football then and now.
    Therefore i say this in all earnest to those who continue to pray for the demise of RFC,be careful what you wish for because without RFC our diddy leagues will become the Irish League and your kids and grand kids will be wearing EPL strips on holiday.

    Instead of focusing on the negative aspects of Rangers away support try and focus on the much needed income they provide to all Scottish clubs,and a simple thanks would be nice.


  44. ERNEST BECKER
    DECEMBER 18, 2017 at 23:03
    Instead of focusing on the negative aspects of Rangers away support try and focus on the much needed income they provide to all Scottish clubs,and a simple thanks would be nice.

    I have a cunning plan.

    What if we were to take no action following a football club’s decade or more of industrial scale cheating and leave all the ill-gotten titles and trophies in place – because they provide much needed income to all Scottish clubs?

    What if we were to pretend that a football club that died the same death of liquidation as Gretna and Third Lanark never actually died at all – because they provide much needed income to all Scottish clubs?

    What if we were to be in permanent thrall to a delinquent football club and its b*stard offspring and fail to apply rules, regulations and punishments as they would be applied to any other club – because they provide much needed income to all Scottish clubs?

    Oh wait! Someone has already applied my cunning plan.


  45. http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/42625322

    Airdrieonians have announced that the controlling shareholding in the club has been sold to new owners.

    The Airdrie Diamonds Limited have bought the stake from M&H Logistics Glasgow Limited.

    The Scottish League One outfit have also announced a new interim board, chaired by former manager Bobby Watson.

    And first-team coach Stephen Findlay has the “full support” of the board, who “believe in his coaching abilities and vision for the club”.

    Director of football Gordon Dalziel has, though, left the club by mutual consent.

    “With the club under new ownership, training is now reverting back to Excelsior Stadium for evening sessions through the week,” Airdrie said in a statement.

    “Unfortunately Gordon’s evening commitments with Radio Clyde don’t allow him to commit to both.

    “We have provided [Findlay] with a budget to strengthen the squad during January and confirmed that signings should have next season in mind.”

    Gordon Dalziel has left his position as Airdrie’s director of football, 15 months after joining the club

    Currently sixth in their division, Airdrie are five points outside the promotion play-off places after 20 games.

    They drew 0-0 with East Fife on Saturday and are next in action against Stranraer this coming Saturday.

    “When asked, we have clarified that our objectives from here are to stabilise the club in all departments and then advance,” the club said.

    “We hope all fans of Airdrieonians Football Club get behind us and support all endeavours on and off the pitch from here on.

    “Everyone involved at the club, whether they be supporters, playing staff, sponsors or directors, share the same objective of shaping a club that the town of Airdrie can be proud of.”

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airdrieonians_F.C.

    Airdrieonians Football Club are a Scottish professional football team based in Airdrie who are members of the Scottish Professional Football League (SPFL) and play in the SPFL Scottish League One. They were formed in 2002 as Airdrie United Football Club following the liquidation of the original club. The club’s official name was changed in 2013 with the approval of the SFA to the traditional name of Airdrieonians. As with the earlier team of the same name, this is often colloquially shortened to simply “Airdrie”.


  46. Thank you glad you all enjoyed that. 

    Now one of my favourite classical pieces.

    Who else but Luciano Pavarotti a famous Celtic supporter.  RIP
    (Pav. not Celtic)


  47. Now this one has only got a tenious link to football. As we all know Rugby and cricket is for the toffs.  Whereas football is for the working class (and millionaires).  So this Grimethorpe Colliery Band playing ‘Proccesion to the Minster’.  It’s very powerful.  As a matter of interest that’s me sitting at the back on the R/H/S with the shoulders going up and down playing the tuba.  Some lungs eh?


  48. Oh my God that brought tears to my eyes.

    Right I’ll go and search for one for I heard tonight on the radio. It was beautiful.

    Couldn’t find the one I heard but here’s this version.  The Voice Squad. Banks of the Bann.  To the same beautiful tune of ‘Be Thou My Vision’


  49. Struggling to think of a song for BP.  I did go to two concerts in the Apollo with Deep Purple.  I’ll have look.  No couldn’t find the original group.

    Think I’ll turn to Punk.

    Ah yes the Sex Pistols when guitars were real genuine guitars.


  50. Right, I’ve only got about a glass and a half left of Lambrini.  So this one will need to suit you all.  A crowd pleaser.

    This is it never fails in Benidorm:


  51. Told you all this would be a sport related music thingy.

    I can just imagine BP and his squad doing this number with a gorgeous girl at the front.

    No I can’t.

    Anyway on we go.
    Blue Order for the Bears on here.  I know I don’t like it either but you leave me with little choice.  I tried Blue Eyes last night with Elton John and it went down like a brick.


  52. This might be my last offering of the night all you pop pickers.  A lovely lady whom I never met.

    I dedicate this to Dark Before Dawn.  My favourite Bear on here.  This is for you son.


  53. Somethings going badly wrong.  This is it Dark Before Dawn.

    ( I think Tris and BP are messing about)

    Ah that is it.


  54. I can see a problem.  All my customers posts are appearing in the list of ‘recent posts’.  Why don’t you exclude posts to Ernie B from the ‘recent posts list?


  55. Seeing as it is Sunday this is a lovely song whether you’re of a religious persuasion or not.

    The Byrds,  Turn Turn Turn.

    The football connection is in the words.  It contains ‘season’.

    “To Everything (Turn, Turn, Turn)There is a season (Turn, Turn, Turn)And a time to every purpose, under Heaven”


  56. Another one for Sunday.  My Sweet Lord – George Harrison.

    From the album All things must PASS.  (Pass being the football connection)

    Wish my own team would pass better at times.


  57. OK, since you’ve posted something by The Byrds, how about another – “I’ll Feel A Whole Better”, a great song by Gene Clark and the B side of the 45 “All I Really Want To Do”.  This was also covered by Tom Petty.  Gene Clark and Tom Petty, both sadly gone!

    I’ll feel a whole lot better when Sevco start to live within their means?


  58. Enjoyed that Gaslamp.  I always liked the Byrds that twangy guitar sound and great vocal harmonies.

    ‘All I really want to do’  Getting nostalgic now.  04

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