Tuesday, March 2, 2021

Moving On Time?

Football is indeed a funny old game.
In a year of pandemic misery our national sport has lifted the spirits of a tired and cynical nation.
Dominic Cummings is leaving number 10, the Brexit deal hasn’t been done, lockdown is on the horizon in the West of Scotland, etc. BUT all we want to do is talk about and relive our team finally doing the business.

For once lady luck came down on our side.

If we been the team to miss our last penalty and had the Serbians scored then Serbian Football would be £10million plus better off and it would be their team heading for Hampden and Wembley.

We’d still be in the doldrums and a Pandemic-accelerated financial basket case.

Scotland is now in their first finals since France 1998 and the nation is smiling and talking positively.

There is no doubt that Steve Clarke’s influence has been huge and we all owe him a real debt especially the bean counters at Hampden who must have been hiding behind their settees hiding their eyes through extra time and into the shoot-out.

Scotland is playing more like a club team with a binding spirit rather than a group of individuals who have just met, are there for the match fee and want to stay in their previous cliques.

The dark side is never far away though.
Overconfidence is always an issue when Scotland wins a few games.

Journalists are now filling pages talking about our 9 game unbeaten run and digging up statistics from the past about what 10 in a row would mean.

The fact that since we got humped 4-0 by Russia we’ve been playing second and third level teams rather than the big boys is somehow never mentioned as a counterbalance.

That we have qualified after 2 penalty shoot outs with a statistically unlikely 10 out of 10 consecutive strikes is put down to practicing penalty taking better than Israel and Serbia.

The two games in the next 4 days might extend our run or not – it doesn’t really matter.

We have the big prize for now and qualified against the odds.
Records will show the much higher ranked Norway and Serbia teams will be at home.

Ok we’ll be at home too but playing at Hampden and Wembalee.

Scottish Football on the park has rediscovered and is redefining teamwork.

Nothing else in our game or set up has changed
(That is a discussion for many another day though).

The success of our team is to a great extent serendipitous.

It’s not something anyone in a suit at Hampden has facilitated or can take credit for outside of hiring Mr Clarke who as Chic was telling us yesterday was the obvious candidate.

The right manager, Steve has gathered a promising group of players and with them negotiated a series of testing challenges.
The stark reality is sometimes the recent games have been painful to watch but progress in baby steps has been noticeable and we genuinely played well against the more fancied Serbia.

Teamwork has been our bedrock.

Teamwork that has been missing for a long time in our international set up and I would argue throughout our game behind the scenes.

Yes we lost a silly goal at the death but Serbia is some 15 places above us in the FIFA rankings and on the night we were by far the better side.
The same Serbian team that had just returned from Oslo having taken apart the much-vaunted Norwegian side.

Steve Clarke has been the catalyst that has facilitated the unforeseen move from Scotland being a team of self-interested individuals into one with the team spirit.

Yes Steve We Can Boogie.

The Scottish team has moved on and the future is brighter on the international stage.

I understand too why many previously ardent Scots fans had distanced themselves from the team as a personal protest against The SFA and their actions over the last few years.
I get that.
But listening to Ryan and Andy and Lyndon and Steve was enough to demonstrate that these guys are playing for the country and their folks back home and not the blazers or the system.
I buy into their passion and that alone is enough to bring even the stubbornest fans back aboard.

When Big Pink asked me to write a blog about the future of this site a couple of weeks back I said I would like to lurk for a few weeks and do some digging.

I have lurked and gone even further back too.

Top line is the SFM blog is not what it was but you all know that.

Here is Some Feedback

Bit by bit; imperceptibly over the months and years the site has entrenched into the home of the anger and the facts against what John Clark has come to call “The Big Lie”.
Its about how the authorities dealt with the financial collapse of Rangers and set the scene for a series of mayhemic events since.

It’s a big Scottish football story and a good insight into how the game managed itself

But other things have been happening since and football has broken out.

One of you said just yesterday
“This site has become a single issue site only becoming alive when something IBROX is current”.

That is partially true and is something to address because it diminishes what this site can achieve.

The number of posters has eroded since the RTC days and the number of clubs represented by posters has also diminished. The site was always a little Celtic minded but open and welcoming of all clubs at the same time.

Some of that goodwill leaked away in this summer’s SPFL pantomime season when self-interest and the quest for 10 became a subconscious position for some of your group.

The level of politeness and the moderation on the site has however remained a huge asset and is almost unique.

This openness has led recently to one serial troll reappearing after several previous monikers and he/she/they have been playing games with several well know posters. The resultant “dancing on a head of a pin” conversations are not so much “Monitoring Scottish Football” as “doing people’s heads in” and this episode has not helped.
That being said I wish salmon were as easy to hook as some on here.

I don’t think there are enough Headline Blogs like this one and in the past I’ve been told many new blogs are simply skimmed politely and ignored as the discussion reverts to the ongoing various fall outs of the consequences of the infamous secret 5 way agreement and all that has ensued following that particular monumental administrative cock up.

I well remember too and liked Stunney and his papers every morning and even though most of what is written in the back pages of the red tops is there to fill space it was still fun to read.

At the same time there has been so much going on that would have benefitted from the forensic discussion that SFM posters brought to the party.
The court reporting by John Clark, EasyJambo and others has been quite dogged, incredibly insightful and shown up the media on many an occasion.

As the subjects under discussion on SFM became narrower I think the site stopped attracting new blood and also accelerated the departure of valued posters.

The diminishing site then became easier for serial disrupters to play with and the ever-decreasing circles metaphor has probably become a reality.

Finally, the adverts on the site that appeared, as if by magic, a few years ago do not deliver enough revenue to justify the inconvenience to readers.
I can’t read the site on my phone without clicking into people trying to sell me stuff I have no interest in.

That’s just a summary of my views as someone who values what this site has brought over the years.

Is it Time for a Reboot at SFM?

I’d say yes and here are a few suggestions to get you thinking and to start a discussion ahead of Big P and his monitors taking some decisions.

Scottish Football needs an independent conscience.

Scottish Football will be the stronger for it.

SFM can be a huge part of that.

Not all fans will want to be part of it because many just want to support their teams and that is fair enough but without a fan voice and without real analysis of what is really going on all that will happen is we’ll get more of the same that took us into the football wilderness.

And without the right changes even Steve Clarke will run out of steam one day when the penalty gods favour some other side.

So here are 5 ideas for SFM to consider

1 A Regular Blog
This doesn’t have to be written for us like in the past– it can just be a weekly news pick that we highlight to set a discussion agenda.

2 The Creation of a John Clark Wall where we hold the facts about the run up to and the creation of his “big lie”.
Set it all our logically and leave it alone for a future date.
It won’t go away because the action created issues for everyone involved.
It should be constructed for all fans with no jelly and ice cream flavouring.

This action would makes SFM the experts and place to go to read what really happened, helps get that monkey off everyone’s back and can be revisited every February 14th or when something turns up.
It might throw more light too in why we are rejoicing about Scotland getting a £10M windfall from qualifying while nobody is talking about the £80M court case costs heading our way as a nation.
All out of a secret 5 way construct back in 2012 and good for nobody whoever you support.

In the meantime SFM should broaden the discussion on other areas like the dropping of the pyramid, the secrecy inherent at the SFA, SPFL and their JRG, Strict Liability, etc. etc. etc.

3 The return of likes for posts that are good or if you agree but with a difference.
I occasionally post on another site which is free to read for anyone but if you want to post or like another post you have to be registered and all likes show the name of the person who has posted.

4 A consideration for different threads at the same time.

5 No ads.
Sponsorship is fine and banner ads for sponsors too but no commercial links that wheech you off to pastures unknown.

Evolution rather than Revolution

I look forward to the debate and to working with Big Pink and his team.
As chair of the largest Scottish group of fans the SFSA (If you’re not a member please join) I know that the only certainty is that fans will never agree about everything or sometimes even anything.

The tribal and competitive nature of football sets us against each other and causes divisions and disagreements that can become entrenched.
Some would say that is part of the fun of it all.

That being said we do generally agree and care deeply about the following.
We want vision, leadership and most of all fairness and transparency.

All alien words in our game as is.

OK Scotland has qualified for a major championship but our game is still locked in a self-interest framed self-imposed wrestling hold and the fact is that escape will never happen without change.

SFM and SFSA can both be part of that.

Avatar
Andrew Smith
Andrew is the chairman of The Scottish Football Supporters Association Scotland’s Independent fans Association. An ex semi-pro footballer with two resultant artificial hips after too many slide tackles Andrew legitimately supports at least 4 of our senior clubs.

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452 COMMENTS


  1. wottpi 8th December 2020 at 07:53

    ———————v——————-

    Both Austria and Denmark would be expensive guys but a night or so in either would be worth it laugh


  2. brian_d84 8th December 2020 at 07:36
    Nobody outside of social media echo chambers takes the new club thing seriously.
    ……………
    That is a narrative i have stumbled on a bit of recently.
    Social media is one of the most popular online activities that users engage in around the world. There are 3.5 Billion social media users worldwide.So enough social media echo chambers to go around. 45% of the population. If John and others can capture just 1% or less, good for them.
    A small percentage of folk inside the social media echo chamber take the new club thing seriously otherwise they would not protest so much.


  3. brian_d84

    in the year of liquidation the old club came second in the league,why did they not play in europe,why did rfc limited have a vote to vote sevco into the spl,why did a lot of their players walk away mid contract,you can say no one cares,trust me,we do,if you want to think in your head it's the same club,fair play crack on,the rest of us have a brain,oh any chance you still have your show liquidation the red card piece of cardboard in the house,asking for a friend


  4. The life of Brian

     

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/18964226

     

    Rangers: Kelty anger after testimonial is called off

    Last updated on

    23 July 201223 July 2012.From the section Football

    Kelty Hearts have criticised the Scottish FA after the Fife juniors were forced to postpone a pre-season friendly against the new Rangers.

    The Ibrox outfit were unable to play because the SFA has yet to approve the club’s membership.

    “So a thanks must go to the SFA for having a negative impact on not only the top end of Scottish football but the lower end also,” said Kelty.

    The testimonial game for an experienced Kely midfielder will be re-arranged.

    We are all gutted with all the work done sending tickets out etc

    Kelty Hearts

    Ally McCoist’s side have only played games behind closed doors at their Murray Park training ground as they are not licensed to play official fixtures.

    They are due to play their first game of the season, against Brechin City in the Ramsdens Cup, on Saturday”

     

    We feel your hurt but it is what it is.


  5. tony 8th December 2020 at 17:38
    oh any chance you still have your show liquidation the red card piece of cardboard in the house,asking for a friend
    ……………
    The Red card against Liquidation has always intrigued me.
    On the one hand, as you suggest, did any fans keep that red card as a bit of a memento thinking this could be a piece of history to show i was there to save the club from liquidation. A kind of token to show off to the grankids, Look what your grandad has a piece of red card from the day in the clubs history were we had a demonstration and saved the club from liquidation, i could never sell it you see as it is priceless a great part of the tradition of the fans making a stand to save the club.
    Or on the other hand.. Grandad did you hold up a piece of red card to save the club from liquidation?
    Never happened kid, all those pictures are fake, photoshopped, social media for you. Now go away and play.

    Who knows, if the red card display did really help the club against liquidation. wonder just how much that little piece of history would be worth today?
    May even have found a place for it in the museum the ibrox club are planning on building.


  6. bigboab1916 8th December 2020 at 19:39

    ‘…’..as they are not licensed to play official fixtures’

    “”””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””

    Ha, ha, nice one, bigboab. broken heart

    That must have been the last honest bit of Football Governance there has been in the ‘saga’. 

    And then they had to resort to lying, to their perpetual ignominy and shame as individual persons and collectively as  ‘Football Governance’

    There can be no ‘moving on’ until Governance makes a statement that TRFC is not Rangers of 1872 and may not claim any of the titles and honours of that club. 

     

     


  7. Cluster One 8th December 2020 at 20:22

    Who knows, if the red card display did really help the club against liquidation. wonder just how much that little piece of history would be worth today?

    May even have found a place for it in the museum the ibrox club are planning on building.

    ============================

    Apparently the Ibrox museum will have a novel dating convention applied to artefacts on display;

    B.C.  Before Craig

    A.D.  After Demotion (*cough*)

    indecision

    And for balance: the planned CFC museum should soon take delivery of an historical artefact to put on display…

    Peter Lawwell.  no


  8. StevieBC 8th December 2020 at 21:26

    '…delivery of an historical artefact to put on display…Peter Lawwell.'

    """"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""'

    …in a place of honour as "The man who might have shopped us, but didn't!"


  9. Cluster One 8th December 2020 at 15:28

    That is a narrative i have stumbled on a bit of recently.
    Social media is one of the most popular online activities that users engage in around the world. There are 3.5 Billion social media users worldwide.So enough social media echo chambers to go around. 45% of the population. If John and others can capture just 1% or less, good for them.
    A small percentage of folk inside the social media echo chamber take the new club thing seriously otherwise they would not protest so much.

    =======%%%=======

     

    I read your post and the term clutching at slippery straws comes to mind. In fact it actually reminds me of when Charles Green came out with the 500 million fanbase claim.

    I’d ask Brian84 to leave John and his indefatigable ability to connect any god given subject into a midnight missive on the Rangers, well alone. We need some humour in these generally dark times.

     

    Reasonable WC draw for Scotland but we need to keep improving if we want to finish above Denmark and/or Austria because at the moment, we seem to be on a par with Israel. The age profile of the squad is right but we lack some quality (depth) up front to hurt sides like Denmark (2 recent clean sheets against England). …Given we now play a 3-5-2,…what about James Tavernier (via residency criteria*) ? He is currently the most effective player in the SPFL.

    *If that is indeed the case

     


  10. Who has described  “The Scotsman” newspaper” as 

    “This historic bastion of journalistic integrity ..” before going on to say ” [we are] proud of the breadth and quality of our coverage of sport ”

    Let me tell you: none other than Euan McGrory , editor of that very journal.

    Proud that his football reporters subscribe to and support and propagate the biggest piece of deceitful hooey and absolute b.lls that Scottish football governance foisted on the supporters of the sport of football, in their denial of a plain, objective commercial and sporting fact, namely that the football club known as Glasgow Rangers of 1872 foundation is in Liquidation , and that The Rangers FC founded in 2012 is not, and could not possibly be, the Rangers of 1872.

    The man’s got a blo.dy insulting cheek to solicit our financial help to keep his paper in existence.

    [Full page advert in today’s issue of ‘The Scotsman’, headed ” We have been by your side, bringing news that you trust-since 1817″ ]

     


  11. reasonablechap 9th December 2020 at 06:37
    I read your post and the term clutching at slippery straws comes to mind.

    In what way?
    ………………
    Charles Green came out with the 500 million fanbase claim.

    Some ibrox fans believed that claim and some still do.


  12. Suppose the only people who understand Liquidation and its impact would be legal minds, if only there were some to explain to us what it means. Oh wait a minute.
    And i suppose the media who understand the concept of liquidation as well.
     

    cannot pass on that which is undefinable, this is a new Rangers,” Donald Findlay QC .

    Alan Dewar QC,

    The Rangers football club does not exist, it is an idea in people’s minds, a myth of continuity. No-one knows what the Rangers football club is, but it has no legal personality.”

    Mr Dewar adds that ” you can only be the chairman of an entity that has a legal personality. Sevco Scotland, and it alone, bought the assets and carried on the business. The concept of the Rangers Institution continuing exists only in the minds of die hard supporters.”

    https://angelahaggerty.com/why-the-word-sevco-matters/


  13. https://www.bdo.co.uk/getmedia/855077e6-42e9-4126-adfb-39ea4c869cb2/RFC-2012-PLC-Progress-Report-to-30-10-2020.pdf.aspx
    ……………….
    The joint Liquidators had sought detailed explanations regarding certain aspects of the strategy implemented by the joint Administrators during the Administration. A substantive response to our requests was not recieved and we continue to liaise closely with the committee in considering the further actions in relation to these investigations.
    This matter has now been progressed and formal legal action has commenced. The former joint Administrators have defended the action to date and should matters progress to an evidential hearing in the court of session this will commence on 4 May 2021.
    Another court date.


  14. Cluster One 10th December 2020 at 18:19

    ‘..Another court date.’

    “””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””

    And there was I, yesterday, annoyed at having missed a continuation hearing of David Grier’s damages action v both the Lord Advocate and the polis!( I hadn’t been checking the court Rolls as diligently a before)

    But I also had forgotten to check up for the Liquidators’ report to creditors!

    Well done you!

    Maybe by May 2021 the Courts might be back to normal, and I will enjoy physically attending any ‘evidential hearing.’

    That would be in the world of ‘civil’ not ‘criminal’ law.

    And I am quite interested. Given that the criminal charges against the Administrators were dropped, to their enormous personal financial advantage, of course[but what’s a few million quid compared to the worth of your good name!!] it remains to be seen whether the creditors of the Liquidated football club will manage to nail the Administrators for incompetence, lack of proper care and concern in seeking a buyer, a perhaps too readiness to  choose a buyer to whom to sell some of the assets  whose offer to buy at £was not perhaps made to other would-be buyers of assets!

    Lots of fun and knowledge of the law as she is practised still to be had!

    You’ve cheered me up!

     


  15.  

    Cluster One 10th December 2020 at 18:19

    John Clark 10th December 2020 at 22:49

    ———————————-

    BRS Glossary Document SWUC350

     

    "Given the highly sensitive nature of the proceedings at this stage, we are unable to provide any more

    detail in respect of the claim."

    ———————————-

     

    Will inevitably be settled out of court and no dirty washing aired in public.


  16. John Clark 10th December 2020 at 22:49
    ……………
    Star wars day as it is now known now May the 4th.
    Looking back May 4, 2012 Bill Miller American Dream.
    Crossbar challenge May 4, 2013.
    Big push for rangers supporters trust fund to go live on the 5th. May 4th 2014.
    Craig whyte trial reports fraudsters tried to buy club May 4, 2017.
    Lots more fun to come


  17. I am not comfortable with public funds being used to support private enterprise at any time. Either the enterprise is owned and operated by and for the benefit of the tax payer or it stands accountable to its shareholders who must decide the best course of action. Should the government of the day seek to invest public money in private enterprise then we should  expect a reasonable return or dividend on such. Football should not be an exception. I see low interest loans are mentioned, perhaps this could be limited to a maximum of £100000 and anything above charged at commercial rates. This would ensure the wider football community would benefit without advantage being offered to larger concerns.


  18. gunnerb 10th December 2020 at 22:56

    '..Will inevitably be settled out of court and no dirty washing aired in public.'

    """"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""

    Perhaps that will depend on whether Duff and Phelps, the international firm, want, on the basis of what they might have been told, to support the Administrators or throw them to the lions? 

    Their good name is of world-wide importance to them. 

    Would I use D&P if my [hypothetical!] business was at the stage of looking for an Administrator?

    Absolutely not!

    If I had a friend( small chance!) or a brother whose business was unable to to continue would I recommend D&P as Administrators?

    Absolutely not.

    And that's what D&P international have to take into account: the track record.

    And everybody knows that being 'settled out of court' is little more than an admission that the truth is that the other party has won, and lets minimise the damages and costs.

     


  19. Admittedly off topic, but I do wonder about modern day journalists' understanding, and command, of basic English e.g.

    "Simon Jordan fears for Neil Lennon who may have an 'unwritable' ship" (Transfer Tavern – Nathan Linley)


  20. John Clark 10th December 2020 at 22:49

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    Cluster One 10th December 2020 at 18:19

    ‘..Another court date.’
    ……………………

    This caught my eye and thoughts on another court date.

    Soon BDO will take over as liquidator of Rangers Football Club PLC (RFC PLC). This will bring to an end the involvement of the administrators, Duff and Phelps (D+P) and will open up for BDO the possibility of various steps to be taken in the interests of creditors.
    https://scotslawthoughts.wordpress.com/2012/07/07/sevco-director-admits-rangers-assets-bought-at-undervalue-liquidator-should-take-assets-back/


  21. 11 Dec 2020 Statement of capital following an allotment of shares on 10 December 2020
    ………………
    Is it a share issue every month to keep the lights on?


  22. You would imagine their opponents  , especially in Europe , would be looking at the state of their finances and the fact they are behind in social taxes , and wondering why they are being allowed to buy players and deprive others of prize money .


  23. I wonder whether it is Club 1872 Projects Community Interest Company that has bought 1,375,000 shares for £275K?

    That would bring their percentage of the total to 8.78%

    29952838 divided by

    340991872

     x 100% = 8.7840328347%

    making Club 1872 the 4th largest shareholder.

    [If my figures are wrong, blame my first maths teacher at secondary school!]

    Is there any legal mechanism that could prevent King selling just such proportion of his holding that would make Club 1872 the single largest shareholder? Would the present Board have powers to prevent a sale to any body that King wanted to sell his shares to? Could RIFC plc compulsorily purchase them back?

     


  24. Cluster One 11th December 2020 at 15:55

    ‘..This will bring to an end the involvement of the administrators, Duff and Phelps (D P)..’

    “”””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””

    It has to be remembered that Lord Hodge had a wee query or so to be answered before he felt able to discharge the Administrators as having met all their legal requirements in the sense that they had done their duty under the law and had not infringed  any actual law. 

    However, whether they had fully lived up to the norms of their professional body by, for example, arbitrarily selecting CG as the chosen purchaser of assets without giving  the other failed bidders ( Walter’s consortium, or  Mr Ng or Bill the trucker, for example) a chance to bid might be another question.


  25. Griffith -v- P ( in my inbox today)

    Here's a wee 'contempt of court' case, where a wee wumman , with no record of criminality, is sent to the pokey for 12 months, no messing about.

    Neutral Citation Number: [2020] EWCA Civ 1675 Case No: B4/2020/1805 IN THE COURT OF APPEAL (CIVIL DIVISION)

    Judgment published on 11-12-2020 02:08 PM GMT

    Of course, I make no comparison between 'forging a Court order' and flagrantly disobeying  a Court order. Not complying with an order to do something ( King) is not in the same category as forging a Court Order thereby interfering with the administration of justice(the wee wumman)

    But still…some folk seem to be dealt with extraordinarily leniently for giving two fingers to the Court while other folk……


  26. https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/29million-rangers-court-claim-against-23155084.amp?__twitter_impression=true
    The liquidator of Oldco Rangers has launched a £29million court case against administrators Duff & Phelps over their refusal to sell Ibrox stadium.

    BDO says the stadium – and the club’s training complex, corporate brand and players – should have been cashed in and the money put towards the multi-million pound mountain of debt.

    The case is to be heard in Scotland’s highest civil court in May next year and will point back to February 14, 2012, when Duff & Phelps were appointed administrators of the club after it fell into financial ruin during the ownership of Craig Whyte.
    …………….
    Something we spoke about the other day, good of the SMSM to catch up.


  27. ‘John Clark 11th December 2020 at 20:14

    I wonder whether it is Club 1872 Projects Community Interest Company that has bought 1,375,000 shares for £275K?…

     

    [If my figures are wrong, blame my first maths teacher at secondary school!]’

    #############################

    https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/SC437060/filing-history

    According to the PDF attached to the first entry in the above link, it’s 13,750,000 (thirteen million, seven hundred & fifty thousand) shares that have been issued. At 20p each, that’s £2.75m.

    What could that be needed for?

    Working capital?

    Deferred wages?

    Transfer payment(s)?

    Taxes?

    Something else? 

     


  28. Jingso.Jimsie 12th December 2020 at 11:35

    ".. it's 13,750,000 (thirteen million, seven hundred & fifty thousand) shares that have been issued. At 20p each, that's £2.75m.2

    """"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""

    Ha ha, Jingo, that makes me a bit like Eric Morecambe-right figures but wrong order! Thanks for that correction.


  29. Lausanne, 11 December 2020 – The Court of Arbitration for Sport (CAS)

    “…the 2020/21 UEFA Nations League match between Switzerland and Ukraine, that was scheduled to be played in Lucerne on 17 November 2020, was declared forfeited 3-0 by Ukraine.”

    Ukraine has appealed to CAS against that decision, asking that the match be re-scheduled  or decided by UEFA drawing lots!

    (The Ukrainians had been put into mandatory Covid-19 quarantine and couldn’t field a team. Any hope there for St Mirren?)


  30. Cluster One 12th December 2020 at 09:58

    https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/29million-rangers-court-claim-against-23155084.amp?__twitter_impression=true

    …BDO says the stadium – and the club’s training complex, corporate brand and players – should have been cashed in and the money put towards the multi-million pound mountain of debt…

    =================

    I realise that the link is to a DR article, so accuracy is highly questionable, but IIRC;

    – Murray Park wasn't sellable due to a 'joint arrangement' with Sport Scotland?

    – in 2012 there were doubts about the stadium and who actually had "ra deeds" – but presumably it WAS sellable initially?

    – the IP / brand was sellable.  Is that now generating a revenue stream for Charles Green today? (Only guessing).

    – don't know about the players though.  If D&P tried to sell them, could they have just refused to leave and walk away for nothing – like Macgregor and Naismith, (IIRC?).

     


  31. StevieBC 12th December 2020 at 12:33
    It will be nine years since the death of rangers that BDO will have their day in court. The debenture holders and creditors will be cheering them on i would expect.
    2010 Murray did a u-turn on the sale at £33mill when Andrew Ellis and Chris Akers tried to buy it.

    A representative from Rangers Unite asked the board “What would you see as an exit price?” Imran replied that he believed on a bad day the club was worth £50 million.July 2012


  32. StevieBC 12th December 2020 at 12:33

    '.. If D&P tried to sell them, could they have just refused to leave and walk away for nothing ..'

    """"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""

    That threw me back to have another read at Lady Stacey's judgment in 

    "The Rangers Football Club Ltd (Formerly Sevco Scotland Ltd)  v   1)  Professional Footballers Association Scotland      2) R F C 2012 Plc (In Liquidation)    [UKEATS/0038/13/SM] "

    Like many other people, Lady Stacey seemed to use language inconsistently.

    In para 5, she records  "..The claim arises from the sale of Rangers Football Club by the second respondent to the first respondent in June 2012. ..'

    And later she seems to have forgotten she had used the 'the sale of Rangers Football Club' and began to talk about 'assets' being purchased:

    Para 43 ……"He was also entitled to refer, in the circumstances of this case, to the “disintegration” of Rangers. It is hard to see why that should be thought to be offensive, when as the EJ commented, there was much comment in the media at the time using such terms. In any event, the first respondent had purchased assets from the administrators and so any reference to “disintegration” was not pejorative of them. It did not seem to me to be pejorative of anybody"

    It is beyond my comprehension how this notion that CG had  bought the football club whole and entire was ever swallowed by anyone, when it is so evidently untrue. If he had done so, there would have been no need for the creation of SevcoScotland/TRFC Ltd, no hassle with Transfers under TUPE, no need new contracts to be signed by anyone then employed at Ibrox……

    And for journalists and others to have allowed themselves to be cowed into not openly declaring that RFC of 1872 ceased to exist and was not bought and brought out of Administration is a shocking indictment of their integrity.

    In my opinion; 

    and we have been singularly ill-served  at many levels since the cheating by SDM first began.


  33. TUPE or not TUPE
    https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/rangers-in-crisis-players-will-not-be-in-breach-1129188
     
    The rags before the myth and the realisation the end was nigh

    ” However, on the advice of their union, PFA Scotland, numerous players have rejected the opportunity to transfer their contracts from Rangers to Sevco. ”

    The union believe players could leave for free and Wishart tonight raised the prospect of legal action should any who wish to do so be prevented from leaving Ibrox by the football authorities.

    In a statement, Wishart said: “Should the players wish to transfer across to the newco, TUPE ensures that they do so on their existing contractual terms.

    “Equally TUPE affords every employee the statutory right to object to the transfer; employers cannot select which parts of TUPE they wish to apply.

    “If a player wishes to object to being transferred his contract of employment would immediately come to an end leaving him with no contract, no dismissal and no right to compensation from either oldco or newco.

    “Both the club and the player are then free from their contractual obligations.”

    Some within the football authorities believe any player exercising their right to leave could be subject to a test case that could involve FIFA and the Court of Arbitration for Sport given that they will still be registered to Rangers with the SPL.

     

     


  34. bigboab1916 12th December 2020 at 19:47

    From that article –

     

    Green is poised to push ahead with a £5.5million deal to buy the club's assets and form a new club, which would need to apply for membership of the Scottish Premier League and be excluded from Europe for three years.

     

    No journalist put his/her name to it , but I think that was the general way of thinking about the situation at the time .


  35. I have come to the conclusion that the general way of thinking about the situation now is that Craig Whyte simply unplugged Rangers* and Charles Green plugged them back in again.


  36. Cluster One 12th December 2020 at 09:58

    Something we spoke about years ago.

    As soon as the CVA was rejected all focus should have been on maximising the return for the creditors, that clearly did not happen and they continued on as before, to seek as much continuity as possible between the old club and the new, to retain the assets and sell them on at a fractions of what they were worth. 

    The assets were sold way under price and the release of negative goodwill in the first set of account (about £20m if I remember) is just admitting that.

    https://www.investopedia.com/terms/n/negativegoodwill.asp#:~:text=Negative%20goodwill%20(NGW)%20refers%20to,a%20fraction%20of%20their%20worth.

    • Negative goodwill (NGW) refers to a bargain purchase amount of money paid when a company acquires another company or its assets.
    • Negative goodwill indicates that the selling party is in a distressed state and must unload its assets for a fraction of their worth. 
    • Negative goodwill nearly always favors the buyer. 
    • Buying parties must declare negative goodwill on their income statements.
    • Negative goodwill is the opposite of goodwill, where one company pays a premium for another company's assets. 
    • Goodwill/negative goodwill reporting falls under generally accepted accounting standards (GAAP).

  37. Homunculus 13th December 2020 at 13:10

    '..the release of negative goodwill in the first set of account (about £20m if I remember) is just admitting that.'

    """"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""

    I think that's the first time I've really understood the concept of 'negative goodwill', Homunculus, and I'm grateful for your explanation.

    One thing that still puzzles me is why, it seems, none of the other bidders to purchase the club to keep it going as a 'going concern' did not squeal at the time about the arbitrary selection of Green as the 'preferred' one who could pick up the assets cheap, while the club went into liquidation?

    Why Green? why did the Administrators think that would best for them, for the creditors? A short bidding war for the assets would surely have raised at least a few tens of thousands more for the creditors.

    I really hope BDO are a cut above the FCA when it comes to getting  right into things so that we can be assured that there's no nice wee '(un) gentlemanly agreement' to mask any failures in duty or any professional incompetence   by the Administrators in how the Administration was conducted.

    The whole feckin saga has just about destroyed any belief I may have had in anything to do with 'Financial regulation' or the legal framework in which the business and commercial worlds operate.


  38. John Clark 13th December 2020 at 14:02
    I really hope BDO are a cut above the FCA when it comes to getting right into things
    …………….
    They waited this long to get the administrators to court. May have got there sooner if the administrators had not been arrested. I think i remember BDO had to wait until all that was cleared up first.


  39. Cluster One 13th December 2020 at 22:43

    ‘.. I think i remember BDO had to wait until all that was cleared up first…’

    “”””””””””””””””””””””””

    I think you remember correctly.

    We had all the f ‘arse’ of perhaps one of the most incompetently handled [even down to basic clerical work such as making sure that everybody , including the judge, was literally reading from the same page] criminal prosecutions that the Scottish Courts have ever seen, to get through first!

    As I’ve said before, and not being a lawyer, I sat there wondering ( by no means asserting as a fact!)whether any  case for a prosecution could ever have been so badly put, so poorly prepared for, so ill-researched and so half-heartedly presented(as it seemed to me)as to suggest that the Prosecution had no great desire to secure anything other than that the Judge would toss the whole thing out!

    Believe me, I was embarrassed for the Advocate-Deputy!

    If he had had a good, or reasonable case, he buggered it up.

    If he had had an unwinnable case, it was a nonsense to bring it. 

    That’s what I, ‘unlearned’ in the law [God, how they love the historic crap, ‘one of Her Majesty’s Counsel, learned in the law’!] and being just a Joe Bloggs sitting in the public seats of a Courtroom thought, and think.

    The ‘saga’ has maybe opened a wee lid on a number of things that may be needing looked at: for instance, settlements out of court , or abandonment of criminal charges, that mean that the rest of us don’t get to hear the whole truth. 


  40. And the Celtic plc AGM is tomorrow [sheesh, it's this morning! as Mrs C has just let me know by a rabbit- foot thumping on the floor above!], so, quickly, what can we expect re Res 12/now 11?

    More of the same waffle? denial, let's move on? 10IAR ? we're behind you , Neil, ?- and untruth as before?

    I hope I have the techy skills to hear/view the proceedings. If I can be bothered to listen to the cant.(That's a letter A in there, btw!)

    I will not be lied to: not by wife, sons, brother, best friends, Boris, Nicola or anybody else; and the curse of Cromwell on any Celtic Board that lies to me, even if I am nothing but a tuppence ha'penny shareholder with no power.

     On which high-flown note of moral indignation I take my leave of you.broken heart

     


  41. The SFA, SPFL and the clubs have acknowledged – numerous times publicly – that they need fans inside the stadiums.

    The fans have generally helped out with paying for ST renewals, PPV, merchandise – and during a financially challenging period for all.

    Now, the same fans – taxpayers – will no doubt be funding the proposed 'bailout' offered by the Scottish government.

    So, with all this financial support to the game…

    now would seem like an opportune time for the Hampden blazers to radically change their attitude to fan involvement, feedback and complaints?

    A generic e-mail address which doesn't even generate an autoreply is not acceptable – and never was – for fans to 'try' and communicate with the SFA and SPFL.


  42. The PLC have made their FINAL decision…..Resolution 11 voted down

    97.18 per cent vote against the resolution.

     

    Or you could say that they have simply answered the above blog post title

    #MovingOn

     

    Can those Celtic fans who are unconditionally attached to this issue, continue to support the club ?

     


  43. Mr Denier (RC)

    You do not understand the resolution and the outcome of the vote and the FACT the PLC are taking it further. 

    Go back to your klan this is not finished ……unlike your former club now in LIQUIDATION.

     

     


  44. PbyE

    I understand that over 97% is quite a sizable percentage and that Mr.Bankier was always likely to talk in appeasing but ultimately meaningless woolly phrases.

    "…There’s no firm timetable, but we can assure our shareholders we will provide an update when we possibly can…."

    I have a couple of bridges to sell to anyone interested.


  45. paraniodbyexperience 14th December 2020 at 13:13

    '.. the FACT the PLC are taking it further. '

    """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""

    Yes.

     I'm not as happy as I would have been if Celtic had  gone for the jugular in 2012 and publicly challenged the award of a UEFA competitions licence to CW's club, seeking police investigation of possible criminal conspiracy[as they ought to have done] 

    It's too late to do so now.

    But I'm reasonably content that Bankier's statement is a kick in the shooglies for some of the liars in football governance at that time.

    Those prime  liars will live out the rest of their despicable lives knowing that they are seen to be such even by those for the sake of whom they made liars of themselves.

    May they never prosper


  46. John Clark 13th December 2020 at 14:02

     

    One thing that still puzzles me is why, it seems, none of the other bidders to purchase the club to keep it going as a 'going concern' did not squeal at the time about the arbitrary selection of Green as the 'preferred' one who could pick up the assets cheap, while the club went into liquidation?

    Why Green? why did the Administrators think that would best for them, for the creditors? A short bidding war for the assets would surely have raised at least a few tens of thousands more for the creditors.

    ==============================================

    Absolutely none of that was a factor in the administrator's decision making from what I can see. The creditors were irrelevant. 

    They were working towards a pre-determined outcome involving Whyte and Green, There may have been a bit of improvisation when the CVA was rejected and Whyte was no longer required but other than that I firmly believe it was a pre-determined outcome. Let's wait and see what is determined by the ongoing proceedings. 

    Remember the sale did not go ahead with the preferred bidder / chosen one. The assets were sold to another company with a very similar name, Sevco Scotland Ltd. No-one seems to ever have answered the question, when was that agreed. I believe novation requires all parties to agree to it. 

    The aim was a CVA, a debt free Rangers, still the same club, still in the top division of the league etc.

    When that was rejected and liquidation (ongoing) started there was a wee bit of the truth, then the re-writing of history, then where we are now. 

     


  47. Homunculus

    I think it fairly obvious that D&P (C, W and Grier) were baically in, on what was largely, a pre-determined outcome.

    The authorities have managed to F**k up what was to be fair, an extremely complex case, so badly that the focus is on them, although it'll be Joe Punter who has to pay for it.

    You go back to the issue of conflict involving Grier. How they could come up with there not being any was crazy.

     


  48. Homunculus 14th December 2020 at 14:02

    '..No-one seems to ever have answered the question, when was that agreed.'

    """"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""

    I am put in mind of the Charlottes Fakes  tape of a drink-taken CG on the phone telling/reminding CW '..You are Sevco…'

    As you rightly say, no one has ever seen anything that shows that D&P were authorised by Sevco5088 to sell to any other purchaser than Sevco5088.

    The whole truth of the entire disgraceful 'saga' will sooner or later come to light, perhaps when some at least of the wretched individuals involved have, like RFC of 1872 itself, died the death. 


  49. reasonablechap 14th December 2020 at 13:50

    Is one of them the Chinvat Bridge , perchance ?

    More share movement at RIFC – looks like 50,000 @ 20p .

    14 Dec 2020Statement of capital following an allotment of shares on 14 December 2020

    • GBP 3,410,418.72

    View PDF Statement of capital following an allotment of shares on 14 December 2020

    • GBP 3,410,418.72

    – link opens in a new window – 3 pages(3 pages)

    Sorry , for some reason can't post the link .


  50. https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/SC437060/filing-history

    Probably the smallest ever issue (will check) to raise 10k . It looks like every time a bill comes in they issue some shares to whoever sends the latest cheque . Money too tight to mention , definitely maybe. This isn’t investment this is drip feeding life support medication. Nobody on the Board is giving one penny more than is necessary .

    They should however progress further in the europa league after being drawn against Antwerp who are on a par with Standard Liege as a mid table Belgian outfit. 

    PS – smallest issue by a long way.next smallest raised 1m
    PPS – always the possibility the previous bill from 4 days ago was 10k short from Honest Mistake PLC , all sorted now the cheques in the post


  51. Timtim 14th December 2020 at 19:06

    '…This isn’t investment this is drip feeding life support medication.'

    """"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""

    That gave me a laugh, Timtin. I clicked on the 'thumbs up' thumb. Extraordinarily, instead of adding to the 6 already there, my click seemed not only not to make it 7, but to reduce the 6 to zero!

    Sorry about that.

    Some kind of glitch, I expect, unless I've been banned from clicking ,up or down!heart

     


  52. Homunculus 14th December 2020 at 14:02
    No-one seems to ever have answered the question, when was that agreed. I believe novation requires all parties to agree to it.
    ……………
    https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/13061560.rangers-football-club-born-1872-died-2012/

    But it emerged last night Mr Green may yet face a challenge in his attempts to purchase the business and assets, with three other “newco” offers expected
    Paul Clark, of administrators Duff & Phelps, said there was a full “fall-back plan and that is the sale of business and assets to the Charles Green consortium” and added: “There is no avenue for anyone else to come in at this stage.”


  53. John Clark 14th December 2020 at 17:13

    I think BDO's £29m civil action against the administrator is more likely to bring out more of the truth than a botched criminal action by Crown Office as reported to them by Police Scotland.

    BDO have taken their time, presumably investigated the matter properly and think they have enough to take the matter to the civil Courts. I would be surprised if they don't instruct top civil lawyers to carry out the action on their behalf. 

    Bearing in mind BDO have probably already spent a lot of the money they have brought in, another £29m would be a nice wee addition to the pot.


  54. paddy malarkey 14th December 2020 at 18:2

    "..Is one of them the Chinvat Bridge , perchance ?."

    """"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""

    The nearest "bridges to 'Paradise'"(!) that I remember, pm,  were those over the railway line that ran up from R'glen that crossed first  London Road and then the  Gallowgate ,behind the Celtic end of Celtic Park football stadium! 

    Parkhead Station , I suppose, might be thought of as leading to Celtic Park, but there wasn't a bridge-the line went underground beneath Springfield road!( It was shown in timetables as the station for Celtic Park)

    I enjoyed that reference to Chivat- I knew nothing of Zoroastrianism- for reminding me of  that great scene in the 'Indiana Jones and the last crusade' movie,  where our hero steps out into the void in an act of faith and an 'unseen' bridge supports him as he crosses! 

    Might there be more to the reasonable chap's merchandise? broken heart

     


  55. Homunculus 14th December 2020 at 22:34

    "…I would be surprised if they don't instruct top civil lawyers to carry out the action on their behalf."

    """"""""""""""""""""""""""""

    I'm  pretty sure, Homunculus, that they must already have scouted around for, and instructed, the best QCs in the field of disputed 'Administrations'; and I would not be at all surprised if they have gone south and found an English QC ( if such an one is entitled to appear in a Scottish Court on a matter of UK civil legislation?)

    [I think there must be some understanding in the higher levels of the legal profession that accepting a hopeless brief, or even a brief that , while having  some merit ,  has  no realistic chance of ultimate success, simply to get the fees, is a no-no. 

    There must be some honourable [and feckin competent!] lawyers and advocates and QCs !

    Even although the 'saga' suggests the contrary.


  56. Cluster One 14th December 2020 at 22:04

    '…Paul Clark, of administrators Duff & Phelps,..'

    """"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""

    Whatever about the D&P chap, he at least laughed when I told him my favourite joke:

    Christmas time, customer in the off-licence-' two  bottles of Bells, three bottles of voddy, some baccardi, couple o' dozen cans Tennents 'Special'  , some IrnBru and tonic..'

    The guy that serves him remarks, 'aye, expensive time, Christmas, eh?'

    'Aye', says the customer, 'if it wisnae for the weans, we widnae bother!'

    I was in France when I first heard that joke, and I totally collapsed in laughter.

    ( Ok, suit yersels: I thought it was funny)


  57. John Clark    @    14th December 2020 at 13:58

     I’m not as happy as I would have been if Celtic had  gone for the jugular in 2012 and publicly challenged the award of a UEFA competitions licence to CW’s club, seeking police investigation of possible criminal conspiracy[as they ought to have done] 

    It’s too late to do so now.

    But I’m reasonably content that Bankier’s statement is a kick in the shooglies for some of the liars in football governance at that time.

    ==========%%==========

     

    So you are putting your trust into a group who have previously been consigned to your black book of dishonesty !

    Quite a leap in faith,… Seems you have lessened the charge to somewhere in the vicinity of careless oversight. …..or in other words, you are moving-on regards the part the PLC have played so you can still support the club on the park.

     

    Bankier’s statement is to appease and kick the can out of sight, period. Anyone who thinks otherwise is welcome to make an offer for that bridge I’m selling.


  58. "…(Sevco) Managing Director says Celtic being awarded title left sour taste …" Adam Miller – HITC

    If CFC were not legitimate winners, as Stewpot  and many deluded followers of the 8 year old club would have us believe, what's the big deal about stopping 10IAR?

     

     

     


  59. reasonablechap 15th December 2020 at 07:13

    "…regards the part the PLC have played .."

    """"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""

    Just to be absolutely clear: Celtic plc played no 'part' in the suspected irregular granting of a UEFA licence to CW's club. If there were irregularities, or even crime, Celtic plc were victims!

    My charge  against them is that they failed to act in the way I would have wished them to act  when  information began to accumulate, information  which clearly suggested at least that not all that was done in respect of checking entitlement to that licence was properly done.

    However, I do live in the real world!

    I recognise that it is not for Celtic plc to 'police' the Governance of Scottish Football, or interrogate 'suspect' clubs, or single-handedly try to root out any generalised corruption that there may.

    I recognise that there is no law that says that a football club  which thinks it  may have been wronged, or swindled, MUST tackle the wrongdoer or swindler  seek independent investigation, even if that were to it cause it further damage of any sort. 

    I recognise that the Board of a PLC may have a view about what is 'best for the company ' that differs from mine. 

    My view was/is that there were indications enough that there had been some hanky-panky by RFC of 1872 perhaps with the collaboration of the SFA, and certainly helped by, the inefficiency/incompetence of SFA officers: hanky-panky aimed at misleading The Licensing authority.

    Given the scale of the cheating by Rangers of 1872  which was becoming common knowledge in 2012, I personally would have wished Celtic plc to have screamed aloud for thorough investigation by a body outwith Scottish Football.

    I very much regret that the Board did not and does not believe that getting difficult situations investigated and properly resolved is 'the best for the Company', and chose instead to temporise for years , possibly lying a bit to the Res12 requisitioners, hoping that the issue would disappear.

    I am not proud of the Board: I think they lacked moral conviction and/or courage.

    Having said that, I must repeat that to my mind Bankier's statement came as close to damning the SFA as it could without him opening himself up to legal action by the SFA!

    The passage of time will ,of course, see the present Board members removed in the ordinary way.

    However, unlike RFC of 1872, Celtic FC will not die [unless of course Covid-19 causes the death of professional football altogether] and perhaps future Board members may have a different moral compass.


  60. "we need to start moving one or two players a year. It won't be a big turnover in the squad but that is something we need to do" 

    "While player trading is the important fourth pillar to our model, we have not got ourselves in a position where we have to sell to validate the model. That's not the case."

    So they need to sell but they don't need to sell , nothing like a clear and concise statement . In the meantime loans will come from Douglas Park and John Bennet even though neither of them would give that commitment to the auditors in writing . They could of asked club 1872 to loan them money or even to buy shares but apparently they would rather that cash was sent to Dave King . One club member asked that very question on twitter earlier but the club requested the issue wasn't dragged into the  public domain. Maybe Park and Bennet are prepared to bail out the club* or at least keep them afloat in the off chance they will one day turn a profit but they certainly won't bail out King , that's what the mugs at club 1872 are for. The one outcome of all this is that club 1872 won't be able to provide any finance to the club* for the next 3 years .Even before today's decision Morelos was already the most red carded player in the histories of either Rangers* clubs. I hope they aren't reliant on a big offer from an unfit,overweight, off form, petulant thug to save their bahookeys .Actually…….. I hope they are.  


  61. 2 days and 2 quite differently received / reported AGM’s.

    1 club is relatively well run off the field, but not on it.

    1 club is relatively recklessly run off the field, but is delivering consistent results on the field.

    I think I know the answer for CFC – but the cost would make Lawwell’s eyes water.

    CFC has to swoop for Gerrard – and his entire backroom staff – immediately.

    …and that could guarantee 10IAR as well.  enlightened


  62.  John Clark @ 15th December 2020 at 17:07

    ...I very much regret that the Board did not and does not believe that getting difficult situations investigated and properly resolved is ‘the best for the Company’, and chose instead to temporise for years , possibly lying a bit to the Res12 requisitioners, hoping that the issue would disappear.

    I am not proud of the Board: I think they lacked moral conviction and/or courage.

    Having said that, I must repeat that to my mind Bankier’s statement came as close to damning the SFA as it could without him opening himself up to legal action by the SFA!…

    =========%%%==========

     

    Thanks for the reply !

    It only further points to a staggering level of double standards regarding the importance you repeatedly place on the importance of honesty and the invective that is subsequently dished out to liars. It simply isn’t credible to preach so loudly, then when your own lot are “lying a bit“, attempt to mitigate.

    How can anyone emotionally or otherwise invested in Res.12 continue to put money into a PLC whose ‘interest’ is the polar opposite and are prepared to patronise and ly to fans/shareholders ? 

    This isn’t about white lies and fingers crossed behind backs (which I use to illustrate the novel concept of “lying a bit). According to you John, it’s about a PLC lying to shareholders……. Yet, you seem to reluctantly accept Bankier’s statement because it nearly dams the SFA! ….Bankier must have been reading up on some of Charles Green’s methods to get fans onside. 

    The PLC have got rid of it, as they always intended to do  and the Chairman is simply selling appeasement. It comes in an empty box with the instruction, not to be opened until 2099. 


  63. Competition watchdog to probe Rangers and retailers over replica kits

    By Henry Saker-Clark, PA City Reporter

    1 hour ago

    The UK competition watchdog has launched an investigation into Rangers FC and sportswear retailers over the price of replica football kits.

    On Wednesday, the Competition and Markets Authority (CMA) confirmed it has opened an initial inquiry into potential “anti-competitive behaviour”.

    It said it is probing Rangers and Hummel, which manufactures the club’s kit, as well as retailers Greaves Sports and JD Sports.

    The investigation process, which is expected to take six months, will look into suspected breaches of competition law, it said.

    The regulator said: “At this stage the CMA believes that it has reasonable grounds to suspect one or more breaches of competition law.

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/competition-watchdog-to-probe-rangers-and-retailers-over-replica-kits/ar-BB1bY99q?ocid=entnewsntp


  64. Interesting to read that our old DR friend – Keef – has been directed to have a pop at King and his proposed share sale to Club1872.

    Even more interesting is the claim that RIFC had previously offered direct, new shares to Club1872 – but the offer was declined.

    IF that is true, then it does raise questions about Club1872’s impartiality and the quality of advice given to its paying members. 

    Does this cross over into FCA regulations territory and the provision of financial / investment advice?

    Anyway, don’t think King will be smiling about this latest development.  broken heart


  65. ‘Timtim 15th December 2020 at 19:34

    “we need to start moving one or two players a year. It won’t be a big turnover in the squad but that is something we need to do”…’ 

    ##############################

    This begs the question: who (in the straitened circumstances that most clubs find themselves in) will be in the market with the required multi-millions for TRFC’s transfer magnets? 

    There are big price-tickets on:

    A twenty-nine year-old full back who was a dud in England & has no international experience.

    A twenty-eight year-old full back.

    A twenty-seven year-old centre back with documented heart problems.

    A vanity midfielder relying on his father’s name.

    …and then there’s El Huffalo. Scoring rate, discipline & demeanour all count against him.

    Then you’ve got:

    Two mid-twenties midfielders who aren’t guaranteed a start.

    Two twenty-eight year-old midfielders who aren’t guaranteed a start.

    Most of the others are relatively worthless due to age. TRFC’s first team squad has players aged 38(x2), 33, 32 & 35.

    There’s a song in Lionel Bart’s ‘Oliver’ entitled ‘Who Will Buy?’ Well, who will?


  66. reasonablechap 16th December 2020 at 05:54

    '.This isn’t about white lies and fingers crossed behind backs "

    """"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""

    Correct. 

    It's about my personal disagreement as a shareholder with a decision taken by the Board of Celtic plc on a matter of Board policy ,in respect of whether the Board  should pursue a former member club of the SPL and/or the Governance body of Scottish football on suspicion of having defrauded Celtic plc of some millions of pounds.

    What you may have to say, RC, as a defender of the former member club [ iniquitous on account of its decade of cheating which was the cause of it becoming a former member club] and as a supporter of the propaganda  that TRFC is somehow or other  that self-same former cheating club, is irrelevant to that disagreement

    My dispute with the Celtic Board is of no concern of yours: you have no locus in that matter (except perhaps to be very glad on behalf of some possibly quite anxious people) that the Celtic Board chose not to have the suspected fraud seriously investigated or referred to the Police. 

    Whatever my entitled view of how they arrived at that decision,  the Celtic Board

    did not cheat and lie to Scottish Football

    did not cheat  hundreds of individual creditors for a decade,

    did not rip off the taxpayer to the tune of several tens of millions of pounds,

    and does not falsely market itself to potential investors as being the holding company of an eight year old football club miraculously about to celebrate its 150th anniversary, claiming to be the most successful club in the world!

    The Celtic board failed to do as I would wish them to have done.

    In not doing what I wished, however, they did no harm to anyone else and they broke no law. They have caused me and others some disappointment because they did not share the view that were serious questions to ask about the integrity of the Sport in the matter of the ' 5-Way Agreement' , questions reinforced by the Licence issue, coming into the light at about the same time.

    It is conceivable, perhaps, that they might very much share that view, but decided that securing a conviction in Scotland of persons in football accused of crimes related to their functions in football management/governance might be impossible, and that any attempt to do so would be a waste of shareholders' monies amounting to more in total than what  they might have gained had Celtic rather than RFC of 1872 been awarded the UEFA licence!

    They might also have been reluctant , in a spirit of Marist charity, to see people go to jail! 

     

     

     

     

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SFM is a community of football fans who want to see the game in Scotland run fairly and in a manner that befits true sporting endeavour